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This is so true. I've discovered, quite recently, that by slipping into a strange avatar and an ambiguous name, that I can speak exactly as I did before, but certain people who think they've been fighting religious monsters, are themselves religious monsters -- bloodthirsty and cruel.
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I think @Mistral hit the nail on the head. It is very easy to let the circumstances in which you find yourself alter the person you are. We have all done things out of necessity that we may not have done in other circumstances. However, do you continue to behave in those ways once the need has passed? It can be easy and effective to do so, but it can make you a worse person for it.
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What a refreshingly interesting topic (and responses).
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What a refreshingly interesting topic (and responses).
I would have to agree with @Mistral that the "quote is cautionary. That when you're fighting against something you have to be careful, the ends don't always justify the means. It's easy to lose yourself in the fight."
I would like to add that in mentioning the abyss we are now including an environment (be it physical, mental, spiritual...) and the idea of becoming a product of it gazing back at you and the influence it has to build on each and everyone of our individual experiences to make us who we are, for better or worse. I maintain that if one can remain shrewd, the knowledge of what lies in the abyss is more beneficial than the ignorance of it... and worthy of its exploration.
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I think that the quote means that the monsters are problems and issues, and that the abyss is the darkness within everyone, or something along those lines.
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I think that the quote means that the monsters are problems and issues, and that the abyss is the darkness within everyone, or something along those lines.
People who deal with problems should be careful not to make those same mistakes that others bring them or become hypocritical, and for the abyss, I think that it means (and I could be wrong) that when you contemplate doing wrong things, that even that small action encourages the darkness to grow within oneself.
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You always have to try and keep a humble outlook, but Nietzsche was good at "just saying things" which are thought provoking and he admits this in his work.
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You always have to try and keep a humble outlook, but Nietzsche was good at "just saying things" which are thought provoking and he admits this in his work.
We get the concept of the abyss today largely from the old and new testament, where Satan, the Destroyer, is called the "Angel of the Abyss"... yet, even that book ends the whole shebang with "then there will be a day with neither light nor darkness, a day the Lord is familiar with".
Therefore, both light and darkness even in the most sublime sense are... but... metaphors.
Of Jesus, it was said that he "opened his mouth in dark sayings", and this of "the light of the world". And it is said God sees to the darkest, lowest point of the pit of darkness as though it were full daylight.
The trick in dealing with darkness - which is a real thing for all intents and purposes these days - is to see it with a flashlight. To have night vision. One could say. Then, what is hidden is no longer dark, but it is light.
Just as people scratch their heads about "why God allows evil to happen" or "how horrible is that person or angel"... because they lack understanding.
Behind every confused mass, regardless of how deep its' scope, is some manner of order. This is simply something that requires a strong mind and a heart that is receptive to fire.
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In my experience the abyss (for me: existential fear, hopeless contemplation, I don't know how to articulate this!) is always brought on by staring into it. Challenging it, inquiry into the empty spaces of the heart, these places devoid of love. In other words: My madness is often self-inflicted. For some unfortunate reason I frequently convince myself that I cannot live without the abyss. It has the answers it seems! It is the place I need to change and so feel compelled to dwell there, or perhaps I feel that I must punish myself to better understand the world and the mind as a whole. Conversely the more I look to light the more enlightened I become. I agree that this quote is cautionary. Can you really bear ignorance to escape the pain of enlightenment? In this session my view of enlightenment is skewed and incomplete. But I guess that's because I've been looking at too much abyss.
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To me this quote is cautionary. That when you're fighting against something you have to be careful, the ends don't always justify the means. It's easy to lose yourself in the fight and get a 'do whatever it takes' mindset that can be just as harmful and destructive as what you're fighting against. Some examples might be the cop that wants to end street violence so badly that he goes rouge and becomes violent himself. The atheist who proselytizes and demeans anyone who doesn't agree. The environmentalists who go off the deep end and start resorting to arson and vandalism. The worst of things are usually done with the best intentions.
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To me this quote is cautionary. That when you're fighting against something you have to be careful, the ends don't always justify the means. It's easy to lose yourself in the fight and get a 'do whatever it takes' mindset that can be just as harmful and destructive as what you're fighting against. Some examples might be the cop that wants to end street violence so badly that he goes rouge and becomes violent himself. The atheist who proselytizes and demeans anyone who doesn't agree. The environmentalists who go off the deep end and start resorting to arson and vandalism. The worst of things are usually done with the best intentions.
As to gazing into the abyss... When you're trying to figure out your enemy your enemy is also trying to figure you out. Furthermore no information is gained without changing us in some way.
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I've thought about this one a lot, and I can't even pretend that I've found an answer, but from my personal experience when someone wished me harm - and my first response was to wish them harm in return - I began to lose myself in the anger. Once I saw that I was on the path to become a monster too, I abruptly let go, and it was one mighty life lesson. Now if I encounter monsters I don't engage because staying true to who I am is a far greater achievement than the ego required to engage in battle with them.
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This is often true, due to desentization to certain stimulai. A battle-hardened soldier will kill easier...
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I've heard the expression to "dance with the devil " .
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