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gb220

- 1 year ago

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What's more important: grammatical correctness or the message being communicated?

As a regular grammar fascist, it is well known among my circle of friends that I WILL pick you up on sloppy grammar; I will correct 'who' to 'whom' and 'I done it' to 'I did it', I can't help it!

If you're like me, you'll know very well that people don't take too kindly to having their grammar corrected and if you're someone who is often corrected by some know-it-all, then you'll know how irritating people like me can be.

However, this got me thinking; should poor command of one's language detract from the worth of their ideas and expressions?

I open the floor to you all...

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It depends on what the message is. If it's an important message then I don't think it should be brought up because people might then not take the message seriously. If it is an unimportant message then I think it should be corrected, but in a nice way.

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I believe that communication is key. If accurate communication is achieved the grammar is secondary. Sometimes the adroit use of a double negative can avoid a sticky situation.

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if someone could understand "aisdfjajfoiasjdioj"
Then props.
P.S. I just said "If you are reading this then props"

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It depends on the forum, and the message.

We were able to ignore segregation for a century because the victims were deemed inarticulate. Martian Luther King Jr didn't say anything which hadn't already been said, he just said it, and wrote it in an way acceptable to educated whites.

While protecting language is important we can never forget we are a nation bound together by ideas, and the free exchange of ideas is the only way we survive.

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I'm a proofreader, so my response is probably biased. However, I find grammatical errors to be very distracting. Speech is a bit different, as you can't always expect forethought. But, when something is written, it feels more deliberate, and there is (possibly) an inherent expectation that written words have been more carefully thought out. Does that make sense?

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The sharing of ideas is far more important than being grammatically correct 100% of the time.

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Message being delivered is more Important than all the errors...!!!!!

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The message being delivered, unless grammar and spelling is somehow essential to utilizing the message properly. I stopped being pedantic when it occurred to me that I was being a douche.

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I agree with a lot that's been written here on this thread. Here's my two cents: quality of expression depends on both technique and originality. Like in the visual arts, a poorly-executed idea can be an intolerable thing to look at, just as technical mastery without creative impulse leads to vapid expression. Poor grammar, like insipid ideas, should be met with a healthy dose of intolerance. If somebody wants to be taken seriously a discussion forum, they need to respect the rules of the game. A proper command of the conventions of language is a prerequisite to high-quality expression of ideas, which is what I think we strive for here.

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i think the message can be marred by bad grammar but if the message still comes across, the 'either or' depends on the person receiving the message. from what you said, for the message to be powerful or meaningful to you, it has to have proper grammar. but for someone who isn't a grammar n**i, it might be powerful even with awful grammar.

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For the non-native speakers too, it can be very discouraging. Better to respond to the message than comment on the grammar. Unless of course you are an ESL teacher like me.

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They're equally important. If the message has grammatical errors then the messages thunder gets stolen :)

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Indeed!

Some of us strive to maintain standards.

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Descriptive vs. Prescriptive Grammarians

I'll go with the Linguists on this one...

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The message.

The point of communication is to get your message acrossed.

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obviously the message, no message no grammar.

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Grammer is the template or recipe ... intent is the taste.

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I appreciate when people correct my grammar. Often I write something wondering if it is grammatically correct, wishing someone would let me know so that I can learn instead of being unsure. For example, I really don't know if I need a comma between "correct" and "wishing". or if I need to put parenthesis around "correct" and "wishing" or if I should have put the period before or after the parenthesis.

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I believe that grammar can be very telling about a person; incorrect grammar can hint at a person's background, establish whether or not a person is speaking his native language, and, in certain situations, detract from the weight of a person's ideas. Children learning their native language should always be corrected, and grammar should and does affect the strength and professionalism of communication in a business or learning environment. In a casual atmosphere, however, grammar should be the last thing to upset the flow of genuine human interaction (I struggle with this, too).

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I emphasize the importance of both. The message is the overall goal. However, conveying it using improper mechanics and grammar makes the conveyor look unintelligent, making it hard for me to respect the man and the message that he is trying to deliver.

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"...should poor command of one's language detract from the worth of their ideas and expressions? "

there are all sorts of grammars - including that of text speak and writing in forums on the net.
For example - this is a cross between a conversational context and a printed one, this is why I often use extra paragraph breaks,
hyphens
and ...

because in general people are speed reading here.

Spelling and grammar errors can detract significantly from the so called ideas and expressions -
I have a friend who insists he likes using caps lock on all electronic comms - and never mind the netiquette rule - block caps are actually slower and more annoying to read -

he can't see this and yet he wants to communicate to a large audience.

as for sloppy spelling and the odd grammar error that doesn't alter meaning, I don't like it, but don't like get n**i about it...
until the person starts behaving like a hypocrite - then I will.

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Here's a very funny article on Grammar n**i's. umlaut.

http://uncyclopedia.wikia.com/wiki/Grammar_nazi

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The thing about words, is that they are thoughts. The order of words can completely alter the outcome as a thought. What people say is often a thought which is diametrically opposite to what they intended to imply. We all carry such misconstructions around with us, coloring our entire view as we go.

I'm a swot, so I notice these things and their consequences. That doesnt mean the person I notice is evil - in fact, it is a complete nonsense to attach personal value to grammar.

It does however mean that what they think they mean doesnt mean what they think, and it is this "being wrong" that people react poorly to, not the original faux pas. Since they have inserted the idea of harm themselves, I dont think grammarians can be called to book for their reaction.

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Re:"should poor command of one's language detract from the worth of their ideas and expressions? "

No..Humans would not have risen out of the caves, if that was the case...M-o-o-n spells understanding..and rise of the middle man..Language is the ability to recognize symbols in an organized manner and just as perception of a story can be different, so can the recognition & expression of the symbols..Languages would not change for better or worse if there was nothing improper about it..If one does not have a solid grasp on the use/ "grammatical principles" it can be difficult/frustrating to express their ideas verbally..

..Poets can paint a picture with words..others need paint..
A poet has a stronger grasp of language,the painter may not..however they can paint the same picture.
The message is more important..regardless How people interpret the message..it still has a meaning..One sentence weather grammatically correct or not can carry a double edge..

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Grammar changes the message communicated. So grammar.

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Stop being a grammar fascist right now. Seriously, English is without a governing board (unlike French) and so grammar is allowed to change. It is called a living language. Grammar fascists are just pseudo-intellectuals with a singular specialty that they use to make themselves seem smart.

Stop it now. It is a sign of a terrible person. I write for a living and thus have something called an editor.

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If you don't possess the skills to form a basic sentence in your own native language then how important can your message be to me?

Oh, and your last sentence should've ended in "ya'll" obviously. Lawls.

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Reminds me of this:

"Nation's Educators Alarmed By Poorly Written Teen Suicide Notes"
http://www.theonion.com/articles/nations-educators-alarmed-by-poorly-written-teen-s,1007/

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I think I have a pretty decent command of the English language, but I still make mistakes so I'm pretty easy going when it comes to other people's stupid grammar. I also never attack someone on a forum based on their grammar because what the hell does that prove?

I am a big fan of companies that use quotes improperly though. There's a car company here that has billboards all over town that say sh*t like:

Come in and drive off with a great deal! Free "warranty" with every car!

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Humility.

The humility to undertand that rule adherence does not denote intelligence or correctness.
The humility to understand that improving ones understanding and use of the rules helps others understand.

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Just bought that Panda book for a writing book, LOL ! Pissed me off this weekend to see a restaurant serving "Corn Beef" for St. Patty's Day. It's CORNED, people ! Also liked the warning on the dryer at the local nail salon : "Unit will shut off automatically when you remove your hands..."

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The panda eats shoots and leaves.

The panda eats, shoots and leaves.

Description of pandas' preferred diet or hungry, homicidal panda on the loose?

The power of punctuation. Just hoping that this will launch more spirited debate!

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I'll answer this one with a story.

I received my son's report card when he was around 10. The teacher wrote: Dale neds to review his work before he submits his workshits.

The point was completely lost. It's a valid point. No question. But there is no way that anyone could stay focussed on that point or read anything else with any degree of open minded respect to the person offering that judgement.

The interesting thing was that my son learned the value of double checking his work through that pretty stupid mistake made by his teacher...so in the end...she actually did her job.

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I still think it's a question of presentation rather than content. For example, there are two very similar packages under your Christmas tree. One was obviously wrapped with a great deal of care and the other was in a Walmart bag with some newspaper wadded up on top. Which will you think holds the better present?

People who don't know or disregard the rules of the language will be likely to disregard something else. Most every company has a grammar n**i to make their stuff presentable. Yet no one feels crucified upon a cross of gerunds. Hmmm.

Better stop now, before Devon unleashes his/her flying monkeys.

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I think it's a bit like watching a movie.

If it has something good to it a lot can be overlooked -- an augmented "willing suspension of disbelief". And additionally, one can get so hung-up on the "mistakes" that they fail to see the good that is there.
Remember that if you become known as someone who hunts for flaws in what is shared . . . people will just stop sharing with you.

But that doesn't let those wishing to share off the hook. If someone has a genuinely good idea that they want to communicate it's to everyone's benefit to communicate it as well as possible.

I still remember an incident from years ago where a University student that everyone thought was quite brilliant generated a small piece where he spelled "house" with a "w" and "caution" with an "sh".
Many admitted that on that day, despite their best efforts to the contrary, he fell in their eyes from "Rhodes scholar" to "bubba".

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