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devongundry

- 1 year ago

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Creating a warmer welcome...

The problem: Joining this site can be tough. You immediately get bombarded by a plethora of different voices, some of which are loud, and not very tactful. Many can feel aggressive and know-it-all. And many new users don't have as thick skin as some of the more veteran members of this site. So, as a result, many people leave SoulPancake a very short time after signing up. Not because they don't want to explore life's big questions, but because they feel the community is negative, brash, aggressive, and simply - unkind.

This is a shame. And it's fundamentally opposite of the reason we created SoulPancake. This should be a place where people can be vulnerable - open up without feeling attacked. Where they can feel safe to share their ideas without someone speaking to them rudely or belittling their perspective.

So, how can we solve this? It is very important to the founders of SoulPancake that we find a solution.

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The reason us 'veterans' have some of the think skin we do is because we know what the site is really about. I joined 2 or 3 years ago and back then this site had a way different layout and general theme. I think then it was easier to navigate through. simple. There were your reliable writers who ALWAYS asked the perfect questions/made the right thought provoking statements. Also the topics were right there, you didn't have to search to see what SoulPancake was trying to say. There were way less user opinions bombarding us. So if you want to take away the agressive, negative feel from the opening page, then make it about SOULPANCAKE again. Not all the loud voices creating the brash static.

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Devon, is the video from Rainn's recent SXSWi talk up anywhere on the site? He did a wonderful job of expressing the spirit of what it seems that you all want this site to be about. I had heard of SP once or twice before then but it was not until after hearing him explain it that I began to understand and think it was worth spending a little time checking out. So for me anyway, that was a great introduction. Perhaps worth incorporating into some sort of SP orientation page... just a thought.

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Approach determines response.
That can't be stressed enough so let me say it again- Approach determines response.

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When I first ran onto the site it was frustrating there was no introduction of any sort...no "home page." The SoulPancake book has a really great introduction explaining the project. I think this site is challenging to understand without some sort of explanation. An explanation that would prepare someone for what they might run upon with some of the thicker skinned comments.

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I agree with you...I personally have a tough skin though so can't completely relate to those who leave because of what someone says. For the people who are offended, I would say just ignore those comments you don't like. For people who say offensive comments, stop. Think if you would say that to their face in person (or to your grandma). If you would not have the guts to say it to their face, do not say it online. And in a nutshell I would say grow up to those who need to use soulpancake to express meaness. It's pathetic and immature.

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A) I actually like the banner above, I think it's cute and totally embellishes the site. B) I Do think that calling veteran SP'ers 'old fogies' is rude/disrespectful. It shows a lack of appreciation to those who have been participating and contributing for a long time. Next time , the banner should be re-worded so it doesn't offend as many (if any) people. Then maybe we wouldn't be having so many disagreements between everyone.

Now, to get onto the real point. I think that both the new SP and old SP users share some of the blame. New Sp'ers tend not to notice (or care about?) the search sign. I admit, it was pretty hard to find it, took me a long time after searching the pages. But some members mentioned the subject of categories, and I think that would be good. If we could group specific topics together (IN AN OBVIOUS WAY) on different pages, then we could see all the questions that have been asked before. I understand how new members are eager to ask and answer questions, but I also get that older members have seen the same questions over and over again, and get tired of it.

Another thing that I notice with both members who seem to be here longer and those who have not been here nearly as long is that when they disagree with another's thoughts, they usually just out and say it. Sure, some things you just gotta put up with (because some people think that theirs is the only ones that matter), but I feel like sometimes, people don't think about how they sound when they write. Even if one is replying to something that they feel someone else said is stupid, I think that they have the brain capacity to say it in a more polite manner. I'm not saying that people should not disagree. To the contrary, I think that disagreements and debates (within reason) are healthy, and I enjoy reading good arguments; I have learned a lot from both the new and the old. On this one, I agree with Devon Gundry: if you don't like it, why waste time on reading it and then replying to it when there's more interesting things to do?

This is just an idea (to answer the question) but what if we (as in you) came up with a dislike button? Then you could keep track of who was getting the most dislikes with their commentary and replies, and then politely ask them to change the way they say their thoughts.

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Y'all could try to act more professional, you know, not let your hurt ego get the better of you?

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I don't think you can sir. The community could, but the members that don't really care likely outnumber those who are getting bent out of shape about it. I guess the real question to YOU is, do you want to make money, or do you want to have some artsy fartsy site where the "old fogies" maintain the status quo?

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No. come on we need the truth. It is unfortunate when feelings are hurt buy really we need to hear what others are really thinking. I love Soul Pancake. I think it is a society of people who are prepared to offer opinions and allows me to be honest about anything that I am interested in. I haven;t asked many questions myself though wouldn;t hesitate to if I was concerned or worried about any issue. I love to think there are people I can anonymously speak to.

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You could have a start page that asks some general questions to the guest to find out what his/her interests are and how serious they are in seeking answers as well as how open they are the new ideas. This could be done in a playful, open way which invites those interested to see some of the questions posed and some of the answers given, that way a new person could gauge whether or not this site is for them. All of this would be a sort of pre-screening that allows the site to prepare the new people for whatever they experience and gives the new person a taste of what is to come.
Start page would have the fun and witty artwork with some scrollable fields and some kind of fun but relevant opening statement and invite. Also put a bypass button for those who wish to get right to it. Provide 3 or 4 very diverse questions and answers that are already on the site and make it relevant to the sites main goal which I think is, to start meaningful conversations between individuals on a variety of spiritual subjects. Maybe have Rain put a paragraph in with his wishes for this endeavor. I would also put some kind of guidelines on visitors code of conduct specifically those who only wish to create drama or bully others on this site. I find many of these questions wonderful and insightful but I also find commentators who are not really here to add anything to the conversations other than to mock or argue others and basically bash anyone who doesn't agree with them or their way of thinking. Maybe make a 3 strike rule for those who cannot play nice and seem only intent on dragging the conversations into the mud. This could all be accomplished in a fun way that promotes respect and allows competing narratives without resorting to our habitually negative ways of being.
I believe in what you are attempting and will continue to visit as long as it allows those who wish to find something real and applicable to their lives and obstacles. From my point of view, we are at a threshold at this time in history where balance is paramount and many are stirring from their hypnotic sleep they call life and desperately seeking meaning. For me, anything that promotes this new wish for esoteric ideas and beliefs is the direction I think we need to pursue for the continued existence of man on this planet. Thank you for providing a venue that promotes and supports spiritual awakening and the future evolution of mankind.

When I let go of what I am, I become what I might be. Lao Tzu

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I think this question came at a very bad time. It may be something that the founders have been thinking about for awhile, but to post it in the middle of an influx of the same questions being asked over and over and of a rude and off-putting banner welcoming the English class and putting down those of us who have kept the site going, was in really bad taste. This whole thing has left a really bad taste in my mouth and I seriously wonder if this is a place I want to be any more. I would hate to leave because I have learned a lot from these so-called unwelcoming and rude people, but it would be better to leave than to stay and feel that the founders don't welcome my contribution and that, on the other hand, they feel it is fine to insult me. How is that welcoming?

A couple of people have commented on intent. That is important, but so is response. To use this ubiquitous English class as an example. I did try to be helpful and polite, but those I was attempting to help didn't welcome the help and were quite rude in return. Do the founders care that perhaps these droves of new-comers who are leaving are taking offence at things that really aren't intended to be offensive or rude. This is a purely written format and miscommunication can happen. Why is it solely the responsibility of the "old fogies" to change our behaviour? Is it not reasonable to expect that those rushing to leave take a second to see how the site works? Perhaps those who are joining should lurk for awhile to see how things work and then ask a question?

Overall, this is one of the most negative things I have ever seen at Soul Pancake and I really am quite disgusted by it.

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Yes, That is how I felt when I first signed up. I only talked for one day. I appreciate this message and I think I will comment more often now.

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I love this issue. I am so glad it was put forth. Thank you, Devon. It speaks to a greater question: do we understand the art and skill of good communication? This website reflects the wide gambit of abilities in the area of debate and discussion.

It reminds of me of watching our local city council meetings. Some people are at the microphone just to hear themselves talk. For these people they are the central player on the stage and the world unrolls from the ends of the fingertips. They have the bill of fare and their shouting orders for everyone. They're mad as hell and you have the inspired good luck to be the recipient of their rage. They want their 15 minutes of fame, the last word, or to bequeath we less brilliant listeners with their invaluable pearls of wisdom.

Besides people who have an ax to grind, (and that's perfectly O.K. with me btw) There is a contingent trying to working out their emotional or psychological quandaries. As @melb2 often says in response to those queries, "Serious.Professional. Counseling." That isn't to say that we can't talk about whatever issue is put forth, but to say that this site should definitely not be the last word on the subject, any more that you should get a cancer diagnosis from this group, or investing advice from us, etc.

For others in those city council chambers, it's THE ISSUE at hand that is the center of attention, and the discussion of that issue in a productive way is tantamount to their presence at the meeting. We must agree to hear each other out, to agree to disagree sometimes, to look at the item from all sides while putting our bias aside, as much as is possible.

So why is someone coming to this "city council" meeting? The Soul Pancake meeting? The reason will be as varied as the individuals. You can't have a open party and then restrict who can come.

You can insist on minimum standards of conduct and I think you've done that. As to the preponderance of inane, non-substantive, or repetitive questions. Last I checked I still have choice and free will. I can intentionally choose which question I will attend to and which I will ignore. I don't want or need you to do that thinking for me. I think I can handle that.

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I absolutely understand where Devon is coming from - I haven't posted here for a long, long time, and it is absolutely due to the disrespectful behavior that was going on - which I feel is counter-intuitive to the spirit with which I understand Soul Pancake was created.

I have always been someone who is passionate about having deep, meaningful discussions on "life's big questions". And I love and appreciate hearing all the diverse points of view and variety of opinions. It helps me gain more awareness and understanding of the beautiful and diverse world I live in. And I love that! I live for it!

But I do not like to place myself in situations where people are being ugly or condescending to each other. It is not a space I enjoy. Please don't get me wrong - it does not have anything to do with being disagreed with. To me, there is a difference between sharing a divergent opinion and making someone feel "less than". It also has nothing to do with being attacked personally - I find no value in witnessing it being done to others either.

I guess the challenge is how to have those conversations in such a diverse population. To me, it should be simple - get your ideas across, share your thoughts and opinions, in a respectful manner, with positive intent. I honestly do not know why that should be challenging - because I don't think it restricts our freedom of speech or freedom of thought.

All it asks, is that we share our opinions, our thoughts, our ideas, our values in a way which is respectful of others. That's not limiting the conversation. It is having the conversation in a kind way.

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I don't come to SP to do someone's homework. I think it should be understood that one has to do one's homework.

The newbie would get different response, let's say, if he/she already had some rough ideas what to do with it. But, he/she didn't fill anything in the details part and just said it's for homework.

Seriously, who likes to see people with no effort??

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I have signed up a few days ago. The main issue I have is I can't find anything. For example this post I got in email because I follow you. I wanted to reply, but was not able to find it on the site. The only way to get here was by finding back the email and follow that link. I also know about a few people who have signed up here. I want to follow them. I really have no idea how to find them, except asking them directly.

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What you may not realize is that we have found a home here too. Now that is something that is decaying when people who have been here for years and contributed countless words/ideas/conversations to the collective can just be made silent. Why exactly did this even happen? Sorry for being brash, it's just that this site has been a big part of my life and I considered it to be a little more free here. I understand you are the overlords of the site and what you say goes, but I also agree with my other friends who have been here a real long time too. See below. I am also curious what do you really want with this site? One sided conversations or engaging dialogue? "This should be a place where people can be vulnerable - open up without feeling attacked. " I feel like I can't be as vulnerable as I have been on this site anymore, if I disagree I might be censored.

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I think that swallowing your pride and admitting you don't have the answers to life is what exploring spirituality/philosophy is all about.

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:D

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I'm a Mod on another busy message board. It's simple.

You need to lay out the forum rules, lay boundaries for behavior, and then swiftly enforce them.

The trolls will leave for easier pickings.

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" we created soulpancake. all of you are guests in our home." (You said this to me in a reply in the other thread - but as the SP team has altered the collective so much that responses are now obscured out of the main flow of threads, I'll respond here, right up front.)

That analogy is dumb - this ain't your living room. This is an online - uber public - social experiment that's taken on its own momentum. I get the feeling that some SP mods didn't like what the SP collective became, so you rolled up your sleeves and plunged in. Monkeyed around, and I for one, do not like many of the results. Geez, you even took away the word "collective."

Once parents give birth, they raise their kid; but say the kid matures into someone much different than what parents intended... well, do you kill this young adult? Threaten shunning? Try to radically change the kid??

You've mentioned several times about polling deleted members, that you're concerned enough about their responses to bring the issue to SP founders.

Have you considered this: I too, stopped participating on SP (cause I disliked the changes to the collective) but I didn't delete, because that felt immature and reactive - I just stopped coming here for many months. Have you polled your silent membership? (I know you haven't, cause I'd heard nothing form SP, no one asked why I stopped posting...)

Have you considered that the deleter "types" might not represent general membership? Sure, some may have been authentically offended, and left on account of that. But still, I'd not change the format on account of this, one of life's realities. Consider how that segment of the population prone to deleting might be the first-impression fast-food self-entitled types among us? I'd not pander to the whiner, deflector contingent. That'd be like letting Angela and Dwight run the office, hehe.

You know, I am very sensitive myself, but if or when challenged or attacked, I stick around and defend myself! THAT process helps me discern whether my argument is any good...

Finally, I remember Rainn's creation video, early on SP -- he smashed his guitar!! Soft, dude, real soft.

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sigh

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I'm really happy and appreciative of your warm welcome and I thank you for that! :) I'm all about being able to voice opinions and perspectives on different topics since everyone has the right to voice them. I think, although some individuals may be more assertive than others it’s okay because people are entitled to their opinions just as long as they are not personally hurting others.

The only problem I have with this forum is when people say personal comments that have nothing to do with the question at hand. For instance making fun of people's vocabulary or writing things like the structure of your question is horrible or they make fun of what you want people to start thinking/talking about. I think SoulPancake should really maybe filter what comments are allowed and only accept comments if they pertain to the topic itself.

Hurtful comments like the ones I've previously mentioned, I find, do not represent the purpose to what I think Soul Pancake is all about; and it's unfortunate that, as a new member, I've already come across similar comments. As someone who has struggled with English before and who's first language was not English...I'm not going to lie devongundry, I thought about not posting anymore "life's big questions" and leaving this forum altogether. The thing that prevented me from doing so, was only thinking about the positives, and knowing that there are many people on this forum that really know the purpose of what SoulPancake is all about, and who want to discuss topics in a friendly manner. Thank you again, for posting this and for allowing us to voice our opinions on this topic.

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I think that people should get over this crazy idea that they should be liked by everyone.

Ain't gonna happen so....let life commence in full.

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if you can't take the heat... you know?

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@devongundry , how many online forums do you frequent? I frequent quite a few, and I have to say this one least rude, aggressive or unkind places for newbies on the net.

What I do see happening here: people get disagreed with. All the time. At any given time, for any given opinion, there will be someone on this site who thinks you are wrong. Likely they will tell you.

Nothing wrong with that. A lot right with it, in fact.

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Oh, and by the way, the so-called mean people helped me grow when I was new here. Instead of running away home to Mommie with hurt feelings, I stuck it out, and know what? Got WAY in touch with my own fallacious bullshit, and today, I am a far more clear thinker, speaking and writer!!

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If this really represents what some on the SP team is thinking - you are, frankly, full of sht, not to mention in utter denial of how human systems work. There is no place like what you describe, except maybe Sesame Street & Mr. Rogers' neighborhood, where the new kids come along and everyone has a big-as happy love fest.

What you got here, is a nice neat slice of life. Accompanied with and populated by, guess what, Real People. Nice ones, loud ones, round ones, soft ones, pokey ones, et al. And in the melange of life - the community of life - guess what, if you voice your opinions, not everyone will agree. AND FURTHER, shocking, I know, the form of these disagreements may not always make all players equally happy - or unhappy. Some will get offended by the mere sniff of controversy, while others have it with their coffee in the morning each day. Deal with it.

I suspect, Devon, that maybe you feel you've not come out looking so good from your tussle with Zamfir, so you (mistakenly) thought to bring the debate to a higher audience, thinking to find some recourse, some vindication, some support for your POV, here.

But sorry, it ain't happening. Have you not taken that class in grade school where they explain about the First Amendment to the United States Constitution? That niggling wee document that protects as*holes like me and Zamfir?

Look, if there's really more than one or two SP mods who feel as you do, I am sorry (actually it explains a lot), it means you're out of touch with the very thing you've helped create. The coolest thing BY FAR about SP has and always will be the collective. The people interacting together in realtime. Control and mute and 'dignify' it too much, and this site will lose what drew most of us in the first place. You need to get more clear on why people are leaving the site, sure, maybe some whiners with hurt feelings voice your POV, but you wanna know why I haven't been around much in the past six months? Cause you folks neutered the collective. It is now harder to see eachothers' responses in a coherent thread, etc. An attempt to mute us, eh?

So, to end my rant, sure, boot the trolls: extreme obscenity, racism, sexism and bigotry, but those whom you don't like cause their style is too brash? Careful, they might come for you next. Or, you might get what you want, a sweet bland site all in shades of grey, with little momentum, and even less substantive participation...

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Does this mean that you support questions from mathematics students asking for people to differentiate and integrate for them??

I didn't reply to any of the recent homework questions myself mainly because English was never my strongest subject so I didn't feel qualified to give them a decent answer. I don't think that it's anybody's intention to turn people away from the site because ultimately we all joined to engage in discussion. I can however see how people become irritated when a new user opens up their SP account with a short question in relation to their homework or when people post about five questions in a row. It would be interesting to see how the questions would have been answered had it not been mentioned that it was homework.

Also I'm in the school of thought that if you don't like the question you don't have to answer it. So perhaps if the user gets a low number of responses it might encourage them to learn more about the site and how it works so that they can generate more responses and engage with the community over time.

It also can't be too hard to have some sort of program that doesn't allow people to ask a question that is similar to one posted recently. I think that would keep things fresh and better flowing discussions. And also if you made it that people had to give X replies before they posted a question it would encourage them to engage with people before going all gun blazing with a question.

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Ha! I think the banner is fine. I'm obviously no "old fogie", but I think Devon's just trying a humourous approach to draw and make SP seem more appealing to the new, and younger, users.

But, you see, that isn't the problem...
The issue is, is that there is no problem! I came into this site, I was a youngin', I stuck it out, and I've come to really enjoy and appreciate it. Besides, there was hardly anything to "stick out", actually; the first person I met on this site was @RosieFullyRivited , and she is to this day one of the nicest women I have ever met!

She, on a contrary and ironically made point, left because she as a VETERAN user felt hurt and turned away. One of the best, most creative, fun, and inquisitive users on your site, and you didn't do a thing about her leaving.
Now, you're giving top-notch priority to the newer users? The ones who don't have the patience to stay? Who are too sensitive and feeble-minded in the first place? Why give them so much more encouraging to stay then some of your greatest users on this site, ever?

If they don't have the balls to stick it out the first few days, then ba-humbug on them. We'll revel in what we have, and not plague ourselves with what could've been.

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I think the problem is wrongly identified...numbers leaving is an issue?
It starts to look like you just want numbers of members for your site's ego

I see it the other way

How about saying - it is too easy to join SP ?
....and post a silly childish homework or bland repeat of a question that all members have seen four times in the last 24 hours...

I know the policy has been anyone over 13 is cool - that just allows for a dominance of homework and, "I think my boyfriend is unfaithful and I've loved him for 2 whole weeeeks Bwaaaahaahhh!" BS...

I personally feel that nobody should be making it so these incapable types find it easier to post...

If you want a childish forum then you make it easy and welcoming to children - you did that.
if you want an adult forum make it so adult hoops have to be jumped through, as in you need some adult experience of the internet and know that opinions will get both positive and negative reactions depending on how you approach the forum in question.

Have question-asking credit built up by numbers of likes if you want -
there are plenty of ways of changing things...

but as I said,
Wrongly identified problem -

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With regard to the banner up top:
>"Hey English class students, Don't let the old fogies turn you off"

Several people recently posted and in effect asked us to do their
homework for them. If I were their teacher, I would give them
a low grade for that. They should do their own assignments.

I agree with others who said a lot of the new members appear
to be very young, as in under 16. I am over 60; I'm probably
older than their parents. Between 16 and 60, there
is a wide cultural gap. This difference in mindset
between the old and the adolescent has always been a source
of misunderstanding. I think adolescents tend to be a lot
more sensitive than older folk, but that's just real life.

I do not mean to be unkind, and I think usually I'm courteous
here on SP. But I say what I think directly, in plain words.
If someone thinks that's unkind, I don't know what to say in response.

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If you really want to have a community that is in lock step with your goals, look no further than Stormfront. They've got moderation down to a science. And they could do with better backgrounds.

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I had no idea that my post about Homework would generate this magnitute of responses. My sole intention was to try and be a supportive community to the kids who may be at a loss and only seeking possitive guidance. This may be of no significance, but I used to mentor High school kids, and their biggest complaint or hurt was that they felt alone, allienated, disrespected. Some came from disfunctional homes, abused, berayed, humiliated, ignored. These were kids who had a desire to push forward despite their circumstances, but sometimes faced road blocks, as we as adults sometimes face.
Not knowing that some wished SP to be an adult only site, I was merely trying to reach out to the kids who had good intentions but may not be privalaged in having strong roll models in their lives, and only thought they desered respect as we all do. Yes, their young, yes, they are not savvy enough yet to express their questions in a correct fashion, but if only one can make a difference in their lives, then that is one good enough.
I was not suggesting we baby sit them do their homework or wipe their noses, only to show a little compassion.
We were all there once before

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I think things have to work both ways. Given the banner at the top of the page, I'm guessing I'm one of the "old fogeys". Look at it from the point of view of regular users of this site. We log on to engage in conversations and suddenly are bombarded with 10-15 questions in a row of the same type. There was no explanation or anything. I actually did try to offer helpful suggestions for making their questions better, and was told to "calm down". I'm trying to be helpful and yet I'M the one being called an "old fogey" and the implication is that I'm trying to drive people away. That is really not pleasant.

I think, if you actually looked through the accounts of those who have left, you will find that the "old fogies" get a little fed up after 5 or 6 questions posted in a row with no interactions. It's hard to have a conversation with only one person participating.

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Oh well! We'd like to pat ourselves on the back for creating an active social club or viral video, but the truth is that these things evolve out of the din of contenders, sometimes contrary to what its parents had in mind. Consider the competition you find in the contents on YouTube, or IMDB, or Yahoo Answers and think long an hard on what it is you really want. A social site is lucky to have its day in the sun, and those that do succeed should thank the light moderation put forth. SoulPancake is lucky that, through mostly self moderation, it has expelled most efforts to invite the most banal of conversations, and the crowds that follow websites with those sorts of conversations cough Gaia.

When Rainne smashed his guitar and wanted to get down to it and have a conversation, free of the airy-fairy, was that said just for ratings? I hope not. I can respect that desire. Kumbaya doesn't invite sideways thinking. It does invite a visit from 4chan.

Would an endless stream of questions about soulmates slake your need for control? Is the site intended to help kids with their homework? Was it really all just to sell books and collect that ad money?

Are you really just justifying the mounting ritual you performed on Zamfir?

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I have to say, That Banner that SP has placed at the top: Hey English Class Students! We're happy to have you! Don't let the old fogies turn you off!"

is probably once of the most offensive I have EVER seen on SP. Thank you SP..you just devalued every member on here.

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I joined a week ago. I almost left. I found a few users to be contrary to the purpose of the site. However, I realized that those users made up only 20% of those I interacted with.

I have decided to "turn the other cheek," but in the sense that, if they instigate/hurt/ or ridicule, I will ignore them or ask them their opinion and intelligently converse with them. After all, internet trolls are human, too :)
I have decided this because with the seedy underbelly of the internet quickly becoming it's very own mascot, sites promoting intellectual, religious, faith-based discussion are few and far between. I support soulpancake :)

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I love Soul Pancake and I am so happy to know that this is on your radar. I do not participate much because I have noticed so much negativity in the replies. Even some of the replies to this sincere question are quite sarcastic. I am not one to care about what people think of what I have to say, I just don't care to participate in anything negative. I do not feel that it is necessarily censorship when your site has a specific goal and the participants are ignoring your goal and taking the site in a drastically different direction. Many sites eliminate negativity on their sites by moderating negative comments and warning folks about their negativity before moderating them or removing their privileges. If the intention of a site is to be positive and foster a community of inclusion, I see no reason why the site should not have the right to put the kibosh on anything that threatens its main goal or disrespects its mission. This does not mean that everyone will agree or get along. Instead, it means that all participants will be held accountable for respecting the opinions and viewpoints of others even if they differ. We, as the SP community, can engage in intelligent conversations without hurting each other, putting each other down, or alienating one another. I agree that some people take offense easily but that is their experience here in the world. As fellow humans, what is wrong with being more patient and trying to meet them where they are? How hard is it really to just be nice about it and ask them follow up questions rather than firing off a snarky reply? You could be making their day better and yours, too. Regarding the comments about teenagers needing to get a thicker skin, not be involved, or go back to Facebook, why alienate? Don't hate, educate. I mean, just try to remember how difficult it is to be that age and how drastically the world has changed in regards to social networking. Sites like Facebook are not moderated and so many kids have hurt themselves or others as a result of the hurt and alienation they've experienced there. We should welcome them here at Soul Pancake where they can ask questions and get supportive answers. This site can offer them an arena for thinking outside the box and help them rise above the hubbub of high school life. I am sorry to say that if the participants here cannot foster the environment that Soul Pancake wants on their own, I truly feel that this site would benefit from some moderation.

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When people join you really need to define more what this site is, what is acceptable and what isn't. Life's big questions is sort of broad. Look to Yahoo answers, is that what you want out of this site? Perhaps that is who you are attracting and what people are expecting. Do you want people asking questions about, 'what to wear today to impress a boy' or 'how does wearing specific outfits convey this or that emotions in others.' From my perspective I like the latter question and if someone is posting the former I can see how anything I say is going to be off putting because I believe this site is more for deep and intelligent discussion. So, divide the site more into more categories so those who have quick question can find an answer to their more erroneous question and those who want deeper discussions have our section. However you need to clearly define the distinction between the two.

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here is an example: The question is "Are you Selfish?" (with the statement "this is for a class project"
the response from the "Old Fogey" (who happens to be a teacher btw) was:
If this is an English project, I have a couple of comments.

1. Let us know the purpose of the assignment. Is the assignment to ask anonymous strangers a question? What are you going to do with this information?
2. Give us some context - where have we come across this person? Are we the only one there? Is it a crowd situation?
3. Thank us in advance for doing this work for you.

If I assigned something like this to my students, I would expect them to give background information on it. This would not get a good grade from me.

the reponse from the OP?: "calm down". I didn't ask for help.

help me understand. which part of that response is "aggressive, negative, tactless"? have I just misread it?

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I joined up when I was 22... and thanks to my parents for bestowing upon me open mind, I used Soul Pancake as a tool to correct a plethora fallacious behaviour. Could this have happened had the SPElite not jumped down my throat? Regardless of how badly they bruised my ideas, they never attacked me as a person. When an argument is reduced to name calling, all is lost... and I'm thankful that that hasn't happened to me here.

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It has been said many a time, this problem would be less of a problem if the forum was separated I to categories. The quickest way to have chaos in a forum is to start with no organizing structure. It is not the structure of this forum that makes it special, it is the intent.

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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HV2cK0MsKMc

I could be interpreting this the wrong way... but I was given the impression, that by smashing his guitar, Rainn was advocating that people with strong feelings and opinions should join Soul Pancake... and strongly express those feelings and opinions. If someone takes offense because their opinions/beliefs conflict with those of another, I'm afraid they don't belong in a debate. I say one can attack ideas all day and night, but attacks on an individual are uncalled for. It's tricky when facts conflict with belief... So tricky, in fact, that we should just drop this whole thing and continue as it were...

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"Hey English Class Students...
We're happy to have you! Don't let the old fogies turn you off "

Oh THAT's the way to keep members.
you people need to figure out your priorities.

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If they can't stand the heat, they don't need to be in the kitchen in the first place. Maybe life's big questions are not for someone who has only had 15 years of life experience that's why there is Facebook and Twitter.

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"Not because they don't want to explore life's big questions, but because they feel the community is negative, brash, aggressive, and simply - unkind. "

what exactly IS 'Life's Big Question"?
somehow, "what is your favorite comic book character?" doesn't make my top ten. and I can assure you that my answer, while perhaps considered "negative and unkind" would be "I don't care".
and I can assure you that more than once when some homework question is posted..I have said "do your own homework". I am not responsible for doing someone else's homework...is that being "unkind"?
and I have noticed on more than one occassion that if a member offers advice,. they are told, in no uncertain terms to F off. thank you. this from a 13 year old. so if the 13 yo "newbie" wants to leave because they "aren't being treated freindly enough" or "welcomed with open arms" by a community that evidently you think should tolerate that behavior..uh...IMHO..they can go.
sometimes "Life's Big Question" is bigger to some than others.

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I haven't found that to be the problem, necessarily.
I suspect that when ones goes anywhere in life one is going to run into "loud aggressive know-it-alls" whose voices may be "loud and aggressive". but calling names is not only not the way to win friends and influence people., neither is throwing up your hands and whining about it.
None of us here at SP is entitled to have everybody on this site..regardless of age or gender agree with us. that's just life. a huge part of the problem, I have noted, is that many of the "newbies" are very young...now, I think that those kids probably have something to offer...at least some of them...but, if you EXPECT to be treated respectfully..then you have to treat others respectfully...and that's just life.
I don't think all these folks are leaving because of the "older members'..I think they quite frankly get bored..this is not FB...we do not do classroom assignements for them..and very, very few of us will tolerate the verbal abuse and direspect heaped upon us.
so, I have to ask, if you believe all the "newbies' are leaving because of their alleged mis-treatment...have you noticed how many long-time members are no longer here? wonder why?

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Just how it is. I remember when I first got here a little more than a year ago, first question I asked was personal to me, and I f****n' got ripped apart LOL. Didn't go back for a few months 'till I got bored and tried again. Then I got called a btch. Just how it is I guess. But now mostly everyone is familiar with the sht I post and they don't fck with me, as much.

When you ask personal questions, the responses you get are gonna hurt hella. That's why I barely ask sht unless it's something that's either A). I need advice with, or B) Something that's eating me alive. And everyone once in awhile post something that I found funny to lighten the mood.

AND THEN you got these motherfuckers who say "This question isn't good enough for this site!" And, that's just a bullshit thing to say LOL. If you say that then chances are you giving out bullshit replies.

I say change that line you use "A place to chew on life's big questions" (Or whatever you say I can't remember lol) To "Just ask what's on your mind" Or something catcher than that, I ain't a f****n' writer.

Well, that was my rant lol.

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The fading flowers might consider having respectable perspectives. I genuinely doubt your information here though. Too convenient. How do you know how many are leaving for the reason you propose?

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If anything bothers me it is the fine line that is sometimes presented between Yahoo Answers and SP.

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I wish I could spotlight my own questions...

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Looks like the SoulPancake is up for castration....

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Thanks so much for asking this question!
I signup up for SP just last week with two other friends...I am the only one that has stuck with it.
I love some of the SP team's generated questions and activities; they tend to be the most positive and thought provoking. I think if the conversations were more divided between contentious issues that many people like to argue on and positive conversations generated by SP, the site would be more welcoming to first-timers. I don't know how you would programmatically seek to achieve that balance.
But, it wasn't just the general negativity of some of the members that drove them away, it was the lack of information on how to really begin using SoulPancake. A basic "run through" tutorial might be helpful to new members and an ability to flag inappropriate responses might be helpful, as well.

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It is my opinion that the members of SP are very friendly and welcoming. When I joined I was welcomed into the fold as a brother. I say the core users are kind and informative in helping new members. Even if they are at times outspoken. But giving people a voice is a part of the mission of this site is it not?

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Um, censorship? Yea, I dunno what to tell you. I think the people that stay here STAY for those very reasons. Even the tactless participants are welcome in my book. This site is not only about tackling these questions but also navigating all of these different personalities; "welcome to the circus".

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This is the fundamental problem I find with Facebook comments sections. You would think that people would engage in intelligent discussion and what not but the exact opposite occurs. Anyways, though I have only been on the site a couple weeks or so, I am going to thank the responder or anyone replying (usually) if i remember to so that people will continue with the dialogue and be encouraged to engage in (intelligent) dialogue in the future. I'm not sure how to promote the ideals you guys have set the website up for, almost every website has similar problems (unless the messages get filtered before being posted).

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Oh man...
It's too welcoming. Creepy in a way.

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