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I have no idea why people treat music as a competition. I can see the art vs commerce argument of course. A case is to be made about music that is produced to be consumed and music that is produced for more artful reasons. But really what you're talking about is what sounds pleasant to your own ears. Which can't really be argued.
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It's a social status indicator.
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It's a social status indicator.
Just like the fashion hierarchy: in some circles, it's not enough to look nice and appropriate: you gain the most status by being stylish (signaling that you have the time and money to spend cultivating your tastes and building your closet) but not obviously following a trend (signaling that you're "original").
I think music is a more attractive indicator than fashion because being elitist about fashion is pretty obviously shallow. (Not knocking fashion itself, just the snobbery around it.) While on the other hand, you can couch music snobbery in terms of artistic sensibilities. That lets you imply that you're a snob because you are a *sensitive artistic person who just can't bear to listen to "bad music"*, and that you could not *possibly* be in it for the social status.
(note: when I say "you" I mean "one", not the OP personally)
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It's about identity as Kendallrosco stated, and an attempt for people to validate their choice in music and or identity.
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I think its because many people find their "identity" in music, so to speak. I, for one, used to become personally offended if someone didn't like my music. It felt like a personal attack. I listened to music that reflected who I am as a person so if someone didn't like it, it meant that they didn't like me.
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I think its because many people find their "identity" in music, so to speak. I, for one, used to become personally offended if someone didn't like my music. It felt like a personal attack. I listened to music that reflected who I am as a person so if someone didn't like it, it meant that they didn't like me.
Looking back I think that feeling this way was immature and childish. Yet, it is how I felt at the time. I think the music people listen to says a lot about the type of person they are. Not because the music defines them, but because they define their music. People who are romantics will often listen to music with romantic lyrics. Those trained in music will often listen to classical or tech metal. Who they are as person is reflected int heir music.
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for the same reason christians dont drink around one another unless they bring it up in convo first. then it's like "oh, we're like minded on that subject".
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I get so fed up with people who tell me my taste in music is terrible. A friend of mine can't believe I actually like pop and R&B, and she constantly tells me that I have "such bad" taste in music. Just because I don't particularly like the indie bands she listens to, she feels the need to put me down. Initially, I tried to act as if I didn't like mainstream, just so she wouldn't think as poorly of me. Then, I realized, f*ck it. Who is she to judge me when I'm rocking out to LMFAO?
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I get so fed up with people who tell me my taste in music is terrible. A friend of mine can't believe I actually like pop and R&B, and she constantly tells me that I have "such bad" taste in music. Just because I don't particularly like the indie bands she listens to, she feels the need to put me down. Initially, I tried to act as if I didn't like mainstream, just so she wouldn't think as poorly of me. Then, I realized, f*ck it. Who is she to judge me when I'm rocking out to LMFAO?
The whole musical hierarchy pisses me off, and I admit I used to be guilty of partaking in it. Definitely not anymore. I understand that some people feel very strongly about their music, but just because YOU like it doesn't make it the best out there. I wish people wouldn't be so judgmental and think their music is so much "better" than others.
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There's a book that came out a few months ago that looks like it addresses precisely these questions: http://www.amazon.com/You-Are-What-Hear-Territory/dp/0875868045/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1301724445&sr=8-1
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There's a book that came out a few months ago that looks like it addresses precisely these questions: http://www.amazon.com/You-Are-What-Hear-Territory/dp/0875868045/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1301724445&sr=8-1
I haven't gotten it yet but I plan to soon. It looks fascinating.
That said, I disagree with the assumption I seem to be seeing here that one necessarily believes his/her taste in music to be the best. For my part, I'm pretty sure my taste is better than it was, say, 10 years ago when I was in high school, not only because it's more inclusive and simply larger, but because I'm always looking for new stuff. Even at that time I kind of knew I listened to some crappy music, but it was what I related to and knew about at the time, and it conformed to the more intense and simplistic emotions I then had. I have music I'll probably always like, but I'm sure much of what I now listen to I'll eventually outgrow, either because I found artists who were doing the same thing, only better, or because said music no longer suits my mindset. For each individual, it seems, some music is time-bound, and some is eternal. So it is really a multi-faceted question, and the developmental is just one major aspect. I think this complicates the issue of value judgments and hierarchies in an interesting way. That is, there is the temporal dimension to consider.
My constant search for more music forever adds to my musical knowledge and horizon of experience, but things do get displaced or effaced this way too. There's only so much I can mentally "carry." But I am always looking for better music, too, which for me is proof that, at least as individuals, we necessarily make these kinds of value judgments, and inevitably they will cause some conflict with others.
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Don't worry about asking so many questions. In fact, I think all of them are the same (for me). Music, is a means of escape for most people. Often times that escape is untouchable by others and one doesn't want their preferences to be tainted by the aggressive views of anothers taste. And so, would it not be easier to have musical tastes that are not aggressively attacked?
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Don't worry about asking so many questions. In fact, I think all of them are the same (for me). Music, is a means of escape for most people. Often times that escape is untouchable by others and one doesn't want their preferences to be tainted by the aggressive views of anothers taste. And so, would it not be easier to have musical tastes that are not aggressively attacked?
Having said that, what about the human ability to get bored? What about changes in taste? I'm sure this happens for most as people grow older.
Music, like other "art" forms, articulate what we already like or know so much better than how we try to express or represent it ourselves. Because our tastes are so personal in this respect, similar to the devotion we might have for our religious beliefs, I feel like people should "collect" the music that best represents themselves and not what the musical-heirarchy says.
You are calm. At peace. There is no musical-heirarchy. There is only the need to express ourselves using musical taste (for those who can't play and instrument). Unfortunately, sometimes the industry makes us believe that their songs represent us well.
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You see the same type of pride in people and favorite sports teams. As if they created the song or play on the team. It's humorous. But I take part in it anyways.
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@insincerelyme "Everyone thinks *their own tempo* is the best to dance to."
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@insincerelyme "Everyone thinks *their own tempo* is the best to dance to."
And thats just a metaphor for life! PERIOD.
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this thread reminds me of a blogpost i came upon once.. http://rosalyn-lee.com/2010/11/12/indie-vs-pop/
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It is an illusion. People have the need to feel important or special in some way. If you humor their bullshit then you are supporting their opinion, therefore you become an enabler. f*ck whatever, whatever. Do what you do. Don't think too hard about it.
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I feel sorry for people who get locked into a genre of music. It's their loss really.
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Another thought, I like what I like because it resonates for me. When I turn on the radio (in Nashville at the moment so predominately country) I don't often like the music but it still interests me. I like learning what resonates for other people.
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Another thought, I like what I like because it resonates for me. When I turn on the radio (in Nashville at the moment so predominately country) I don't often like the music but it still interests me. I like learning what resonates for other people.
And whatever I like, from music to art to literature, I don't take pride in it. Maybe if I were the /creator/ but I'm just the spectator. I don't take much pride in being part of an audience. I /like/ some particular piece of music. Big deal.
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I don't think I'm an musical elitist, but I do believe in expanding the minds of my students. There are days when we listen to Gregorian chant, opera, African tribal music, reggae, old school rap.....you name it. It's all about keeping an open mind.
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Well, maybe I'm just a victim of the whole relativist scare, but I don't think my music is better. I just like it more. It's not a point of pride, it's just my opinion. Human beings already find so many means of dividing and setting themselves apart without creating a musical hierarchy.
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Well, maybe I'm just a victim of the whole relativist scare, but I don't think my music is better. I just like it more. It's not a point of pride, it's just my opinion. Human beings already find so many means of dividing and setting themselves apart without creating a musical hierarchy.
But if you really want a hierarchy, maybe you could look at it this way: You and your tastes probably /aren't/ at the top. So, what's the point? Why struggle for dominance? I mostly listen to classical music. Even within this realm I am snubbed for being overly keen on the Romantic Period. And I simply listen to what I like, versus pushing through more difficult pieces. Wherever your tastes lie, you can't 'win'...so why play the game?
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DUyn5qyf_6c
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DUyn5qyf_6c
lmao...I'm listening to this now..there's no "well-cultivated taste" there :P
*sheepish grin*
I mostly like the older songs...like Beatles and showtunes. I'mageek.
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I'm just honest. There's a heck of a lot of good music, from all genres and all periods. But there are some truths we're just going to have to get comfortable with:
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I'm just honest. There's a heck of a lot of good music, from all genres and all periods. But there are some truths we're just going to have to get comfortable with:
"Achey Breaky Heart" will never be a good song.
Conway Twitty will never be a good artist.
Cher is a dude.
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Actually I've been wondering this as well.. Who exactly do we think we are when we tell someone else his/her taste in music is terrible?
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