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zamfir

- 2 years ago

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Can't we just admit we're all right?

I have noticed a softening of the human mind on this site, to the point where truth and falsity are strictly matters of opinion, moral or cultural relativism rules the day, black is white, up is down... Dogs and cats, living together.

But wait... Can't we all just be RIGHT? Can't our individual opinions, regardless of what they are or how we came by them, be just as true as the next guy's? Why must we differentiate what is "true" from what is "false?" What good does it do for us? Doesn't it only lead to causing friction between individuals?

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Maybe this makes more sense about primary colors. When you are learning about broadcasting, the first thing that you cover is how the primaries make up all the rest, at least when things were broadcast by antenna. I'm pretty sure the same principle applies in art study. As one without a dog in the fight, if red, green, blue and violet are not in fact THE primary colors, it matters not to me. I realize that doesn't exactly advance fact vs subjectivity but aren't there always fading absolutes when you examine anything close enough?

Truth is a slippery slope and there are either two sad facts or two brutal truths that appear once we leave the arena of truth. One: we will likely never know which our opinions are true and two, many of our opinions are nothing other than our own beliefs wrapped up in a masterbatory intensity of hoping to be right.

Can we all be right? Sure, when it comes to the best tasting breakfast cereal, we all can be right because what is it for us is all that matters. However, when cold hearted scientific facts are introduced as part of the discussion, adults will have to agree that only one answer truly exists...not matter how we feel about it. Our fiercely held opinions are just that: our little opinions which cannot stand up to any scrutiny outside our brains because they are ours (I am sounding like Ms. Anne Elk). Enjoy the distinction and walk proud that we are all shiny, beautiful little gems of personal knowledge but be grown up to know when we need to determine if it is a distinction without a difference or just the way it is.

(Climbing down from my soapbox). Good question.

Facts are merely memories we've donned with special 'Truth' hats (the image of a pimp hat* suits my imagination, personally... tho the papal hat is a close #2). Fortunately, humanity is scribing a very long... if not wholly accurate, memoir. For if there's one theme that perpetually repeats itself, it's this: we know what isn't (completely) so.

*Reality is what it is; I am what I am, both standing in our boundless beauty... and facts are there to meet us on the corner, so we can seduce and be seduced...giving each other a moment of passing bliss.

I personally believe that we, the American people, have painted ourselves into a corner. Now all that's left is name-calling, opinionated hatred and many other horrible traits. Compromise and intelligent dialogue/discouse are now dirty four letter words!

One of the more disconcerting aspects of the counterculture of the 60s as it progressed? was reluctance of many to criticize anything but the 'establishment'. It didn't work then. It won't work how.

Depends on how much one insists on being right. I'm never going to win a debate class because, quite frankly, I'm not all that interested in beating someone over the head to persuade them. What they think is what they think. I can listen but I may not agree too and walk off not feeling to particularly bothered by that. I do seek though, but any changes I make in thought have to come from within, not from anothers opinion.

It is a relativistic world. It always has been. We now just live in a culture that's more accepting of it. Truth has never been more than one's opinion of what truth is. People are wrong of course, but until they are convinced they are wrong, their truth will remain "the" truth.

I replied in this thread and saw it but it's gone now. Does anyone know why that happens...

"I have noticed a softening of the human mind on this site, to the point where truth and falsity are strictly matters of opinion, moral or cultural relativism rules the day, black is white, up is down... Dogs and cats, living together."

And that's just nauseating. I want my SP to have some teeth, and if it gets too bloody conciliatory around here, I'll prolly become a very infrequent guest.

There's those in this life who want it all to be so lovely in process, for all to agree and have a place at the table regardless of what they represent. If someone helps us see something differently and we learn or grow, wonderful, but if one alters their view to accommodate others...gag me.

I dont know about you all but I am always right.

Nope, we're not all right, no freaking way. I am not trying to to be rigid -- and I get the whole deal about subjective reality, but still, I wake up each day and know that there's somethings I am right about that others are not. (I also know there's some things I am wrong about, but I won't try to paint them up into Rightville either.)

Example? It is wrong to trash the planet we live on. Wrong for the health of everything and the birthright of future generations. Turn that example onto whatever side one desires, and you'll still never make a leaking toxic landfill "right."

I prefer when people have answers with factual information from sources. To me, that is a good thing.

@snowflake02 that is a reasonable approach, we would struggle to exist if we didn't assume at least the most basic information.

@Barb53 yeah, that would seriously hinder one's ability to become an electrician! at least a very successful one!

We each have the (ahem!) God-given right to dictate what shall be truth and right and wrong in our own personal kingdom.

But if we wish to ever exceed the boundaries of ourselves we might have to consider that these things perhaps had grander definitions even before king me came along.

The ONLY reason there needs to be friction between people as to the definition of these things, is if we recognize the imperfections in the defintion we're currently working with. Can we simply be content to let 'right be right'?
Or are we driven to the very lunatic fringe by the need for US to be right? Perhaps, even to be righteous?
(Much of the friction between people comes from the process of trying to render our righteousness-of-self as of a better cut than their righteousness-of-self)

I guess I was a tad too dry... I am not seriously arguing that truth is subjective. I'm pointing out what is to me a rather flawed way of viewing things.

It as if a person who has been bitten by a snake enters a hospital, and the EMT says, "Oh, he needs his prostate out ASAP!" ... Sometimes-nay MOST of the time, what is true and what is false are fairly self-evident. I don't know why people with no scholarship on the subject at hand feel as though they should weigh in despite not knowing what they're talking about... But they DO. And when I call them on it, they're all too willing to argue as I have done above.

And it's a little scary.

Being right depends on the context. if you say, Columbus discovered America in 1493 - you're wrong. It was 1492. But then again, is it right to say Columbus discovered America? It's only right in context - he was the first Southern European, but the Vikings went their earlier. What we know as Native Americans over the land bridge between Russia to Alaska.

You can be wrong in facts, in history, in theories both scientific and literary. You can quantify and qualify your knowledge on certian subjects but testing what you know and the grasp of the concept.

But as far as belief - that is the area that is grey. Are you saying that people who believe in God or the maleability of structured truths have soft minds? sh*t. I'd still be in the f*****g kitchen barefoot and pregnant if culture retained their ideals, their truths.

But you are exercizing the way in which we create collective meaning - by discussing it. Which is the beauty of this website and why I participate. To agree and dissagree rather than be right or wrong.

@snowflake02 how do you know that you both see the same color when you look at the firetruck driving by?

If we're all right, then we're all wrong too.

i think there is a third category that we tend to ignore: speculation. it is not fact since we don't know for sure, and it is not opinion because there is one correct answer, we just aren't sure of what it is. I think if we were more willing to yield that much of our understanding is speculative then we may be more respecting of other people's understanding and more open to work toward the truth together...

I know that I can be unbalanced about "right" sometimes to the detriment of a larger conversation or purpose. I try to be all about common ground and focusing on the similarities, here and in life. But for an extreme example of why what you're suggesting might be a little bit "pie in the sky"...if someone on here was adamant that we were all wrong and the earth really is flat...isn't there alway's a breaking point to what you're suggesting?

good luck with this thread.

@zamfir Kansas City, Missouri

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I prefer when people have answers with factual information from sources. To me, that is a good thing.

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@Barb53 yeah, that would seriously hinder one's ability to become an electrician! at least a very successful one!

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good luck with this thread.

Can't we just admit we're all right?

I personally believe that we, the American people, have painted ourselves into a corner. Now all that's left is name-calling, opinionated hatred and many other horrible traits. Compromise and intelligent dialogue/discouse are now dirty four letter words!

One of the more disconcerting aspects of the counterculture of the 60s as it progressed? was reluctance of many to criticize anything but the 'establishment'. It didn't work then. It won't work how.

I replied in this thread and saw it but it's gone now. Does anyone know why that happens...

I dont know about you all but I am always right.

I prefer when people have answers with factual information from sources. To me, that is a good thing.

@snowflake02 that is a reasonable approach, we would struggle to exist if we didn't assume at least the most basic information.@Barb53 yeah, that would seriously hinder one's ability to become an electrician! at least a very successful one!

@snowflake02 how do you know that you both see the same color when you look at the firetruck driving by?

If we're all right, then we're all wrong too.

good luck with this thread.

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@snowflake02 that is a reasonable approach, we would struggle to exist if we didn't assume at least the most basic information.

@Barb53 yeah, that would seriously hinder one's ability to become an electrician! at least a very successful one!