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Chickens and cows would have been extinct if we didn't eat them? Really. Wow it's incredible how consumption is equivalent to preservation... What's more amazing is how your accurate your arguement is. I mean it even works for all other domestic animals, because you know, if we didn't domesticate cats and dogs and eat them they wouldn't exist. Thank god for mankind and people like you and for stopping extinction or as you call it, "survival of the fittests".
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I brushed up on some Buddhism, and I have a few ways to relate vegetarianism to the Four Noble Truths. 1.Dukkha: The Nature of Suffering People suffer. Animals suffer. The Earth suffers. 2.Samudaya: The Origin of Suffering People suffer because of our reliance on what is pleasing to our senses. As such, we try to relieve this suffering. One of the ways is through mass production of food(skipping a bunch of steps on the way). In doing so, we cause other people and animals more suffering. We do this by taking more than we need, and neglecting others of what they need. 3. Nirodha: The Cessation of Suffering The end of the suffering of animals because of inhumane conditions. The end of world hunger due to corporate and consumer greed. 4.Marga: The Way Leading to the Cessation of Suffering The Noble Eightfold Path. Establishment of diets that are ethical and sustainable. So that no animals or people have to suffer. The elimination of humane and ecological violence so that the earth doesn't have to suffer and can be allowedd to return to a more natural state of balance. Right now, vegetarianism- or at least a responsible consumption of meat- is part of "Marga." Who knows how long this will last. We may some day be able to return to the meat and potatoes diet we all love...and yes, I DO love me a Big Mac, but I won't give in to have one.
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I found the word I was looking for: Abrogate/Abrogation As proven by vitamin B-12 enrichment, science- among others- has effectively abrogated the need to consume meat. Even Gandhi found a way to have a complete, balanced diet without even using beans/pulses/legumes. Sooner or later, as earth's population of humans continues to grow, it will become even more evident that meat consumption and production is not and will not be sustainable. I don't want to come off as a proselytic vegetarian, but: What have you got to lose?
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For me personally, yes. I can't speak on behalf of other people, but for me it does. I believe that, "Truly, the killing of animals is somewhat contrary to pity and compassion," (Abdul-Baha), so I can't eat meat anymore. I gave it up one day and I really can't go back. I don't see why we have to eat meat when we can live perfectly, healthy, if not healthier, lives without it.
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Quality of life comes into play with animals and their forbearance and we don't need PETA to tell us that. We even saw it on "Dirty Jobs", where Mike Rowe visits a turkey farm. There are thousands of turkeys massed in a shelter, stripped of their place in natural order. They have no means of exercise and are constantly living among the carcasses of their peers who die from the conditions. Yes, there are choices besides mass production. There are farms where animals are raised humanely and ethically. Unfortunately, these farms cannot supply the entire demand for meat. So we, can go one of two ways: Moderate or eliminate the demand, or meet it with an appropriate supply through mass production. This still only meets the demands of the developed world. There is a considerable hunger crisis, and it's not because of a lack of food. There is simply no way to get food to the people that need it because of the practices and greed of the world's food production companies. If companies like Monsanto had their way, there would be one variety of each vegetable. they would control the right to produce its seeds, and the seeds would produce a plant that would die after one season. They would turn food crops, life itself, into a patented product like a can of Coca--Cola. They would essentially be playing "artificial" selection instead of working in harmony with natural selection, as life is intended to be. Instead, we could put power back into the small farmer's hands with a system of bio-diverse and organic farms that serve local areas. This would also have the side effects of significantly lowered energy(petroleum) consumption and stronger human immune systems(seasonal allergies). At the same time maintain large, cost efficient farms to produce staple crops for export and/or domestic consumption. Retain farm animals...not for the slaughter, but to serve in their natural roles: vegetation maintenance and fertilization. It's time to shift focus from profit margins to sustainability and responsibility, as these will give the largest yield in the long-term. Small steps are necessary though. It's time to wean ourselves off of "meat and potatoes" as that sort of diet has proven to be unsustainable. At the same time, we need to wean ourselves off of this massive economy, which is also proving to be undeniably unsustainable on a daily basis. We can become like the leech: constantly in a cycle between engorged and emaciated. Or we can re-attune ourselves to natural order and take only what we need. Relying on animals as food will make the difference. When meat is a part of every meal, you are consuming twice what you need. Once through the animal's stomach(s) and once through your own.
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does eating meat make you less spirtiual? It would depend on your beliefs then wouldn't it? Hindu don't eat Cows, so to them it would be, but some Indian tribes believed in eating certain parts of the animal made you more spirtiual. I mean it couldn't be something as simple as personal choice and beliefs could it?
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My hope is that science will one day produce fake meat (of all varieties) that tastes 99-100% like the real thing. Once that day comes, killing animals will be an outdated practice I think.
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Look people, factory farming is wrong- we can all agree on that... however we all have our own personal views on what to eat... the orriginal question was Does eating the flesh of an animal make you less spiritual... I don't see how it would. All life forms are equal in my eyes, doesn't matter to me if you're killing a carrot or a cow, you're still ending the life of something else to continue your own. There's still a lifeforce behind whatever you're eating. That's the only point I was trying to make. The problem with this world isn't farming or people eating meat there's just too many people on this planet. You want to save the world, don't have kids.
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Genesis 9:1-3 1 Then God blessed Noah and his sons, saying to them, "Be fruitful and increase in number and fill the earth. 2 The fear and dread of you will fall upon all the beasts of the earth and all the birds of the air, upon every creature that moves along the ground, and upon all the fish of the sea; they are given into your hands. 3 Everything that lives and moves will be food for you. Just as I gave you the green plants, I now give you everything. It speaks for itself. We are intended to eat plants AND MEAT. P.S. Chicken is DELICIOUS ;)
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It is better for the planet, suffering creatures are not good for anyone. But spiritual disciplines don't have a lot to do with your diet IMO. For instance beggars can't be choosers and i think anyone opposed to eating meat just for the sake of eating meat is simply a fool. I became a vegetarian because i don't agree with torture of helpless animals, but there are plenty of animals that are raised for food that have happy healthy lives and further more hunting is a spiritual experience for many people and cultures. Hunting represents deep levels of the web of life for many. If you really want to combat the torture of innocents then don't let it stop with your diet and or your boycott of animal products, get involved, speak out, adopt a pet from a shelter, do something besides acting all high and mighty just because you have chosen a more compassionate diet. I know this because people have put me in my place over this and i have become more active about raising awareness of the horrible lifestyles that we as a people chose everyday, we are destroying so much life one hamburger at a time, if we can't change the way we live and the way we treat each other and the way we rampantly use energy (such as the factory farming industry) we are going to go through another dark ages, probably worse than any in recorded history Peace love and imaginary hugs Keep fighting the good fight! Idiot
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no...I think Jesus loved Brisket and I know Mohammed was a huge fan of Skirt Steak.
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I'm not so much into Qi Gong and other ancient Chinese practices, or anything else that deals with metaphysical energies, but I am a vegetarian. I could really care less about the animals when it comes to my diet. To me, it's about eliminating an extra stomach or four. Meat production is a massive, highly irresponsible misplacement of (physical) energy. I would have no problem with eating a wild animal, as the earth has proven that it can sustain that animal's existence. I'm all for organic farming(with local farms being ideal). I think the largest source of "bad energy" in our food comes from chemical fertilizers/herbicides/pesticides and genetic engineering. Creating a monoculture in the interest of optimized profit is introducing mass amounts of negative energy as nature is trying to defend itself in increasingly violent manners. This energy seeps into everything we do. IMO, companies like Monsanto need to stand trial for crimes against humanity and nature. That's not just some new-age nonsense. It is evidenced by the fact that small farms are taking losses every season. They only survive due to government subsidies. It is evidenced by world hunger...not from a lack of food, but from a lack of accessibility of food. It's a matter of ethics, which becomes a matter of karma/samsara, which becomes a matter of spirituality. In today's world, even a vegetarian diet goes against ecological ethics when the practitioner is consuming mass produced/monoculture/GMO foods. Even so, it's still more ethical than eating creatures that also have to eat. The Bhagavad Gita does talk about consuming foods that optimally sustain and promote human well being. It talks about eating foods that you know are good for you instead of foods that taste good or please the senses. Liberation from sense gratification is part of the spiritual journey.
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Ok how about this, does eating the flesh of a living plant and killing it because you were hungry make you less spiritual? I mean come on now that salad you just ate could be out there turning toxic carbon dioxide into safe healthy air but no, you just had to eat it didn't you? "Plants, in some way, are linked to their immediate environment and apparently respond emotionally to perceived attacks on itself and others." http://createwhatyouwant.blogspot.com/2006/03/plants-dont-lie.html" target="_blank">http://createwhatyouwant.blogspot.com/2006/03/plants-dont-lie.html Just imagine an entire feild of letuce plants terrified and fearful of the combine coming to kill them... their last emotion before their iminiant death- fear... and you eat it with dressing and croutons... you savage plant murderers.
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I don't really think it makes you less spiritual, but... just because you can eat meat doesn't mean you should. I agree that avoiding meat consumption is better for the planet and for the body, but as for the soul I think it has to do with your personal religion. For instance, Hindus believe that "all of our actions including our choice of food have karmic consequences. By involving oneself in the cycle of inflicting injury, pain and death, even indirectly by eating other creatures, one must in the future experience in equal measure the suffering caused." As for the God arguement, he did made us omnivorous but didn't he also say "Thou shall not kill" ? I guess no one knows for sure but if you think about it, every living creature has the same right to live...
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Why would it? Unless one wanted to foster the comparative belief that not eating it made one more spiritual! I think the misconception comes from a human-created "hierarchy of spirits" -- where some spirits are judged (invariably by our needs standards and desires) as "lesser". It's the exact same process by which we would try to judge others as "greater" than us or "lesser" than us. It's a way to try to make sense of things -- but it is a way couched in human fallacy, in the belief that we are the ones who are the judge of such things. We judge it according to what we think and we feel, but because we are neither the master of flesh or spirit -- matter or energy -- it isn't in our purview to assign such values. Usually one is just trying to feel better about themselves. It's the reason why we might not feel so bad about squishing or spraying an ugly or nuisance bug but feel terrible about doing the same to a beautiful butterfly. Because we cannot understand the spirit of a plant that remains rooted in the same spot, taking whatever life brings its way, we deem it a "lesser spirit" or perhaps even devoid of spirit. And in the long run perhaps this is what makes us less spiritual -- to earnestly believe that we are the determiners of such things based totally on our fickle feelings.
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Well if you are able to eat the fear and pain of that soulless being then you also get to taste the happiness and warm fuzzies the creature experienced. I would chose to remember the cow as a happy frolicking hamburger.
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Actually, vegetarianism causes more harm to animals than it helps them, the soy and vegetables of most "Vegtarian" food products is made toxic to animals in the areas where there grown. I have an activist friend that has a lot of information on that. I'll post here again if I get more info.
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